Jerry Springer: The Opera. ‘The staff at the National are like the civil servants in Yes, Minister’ says its director Stewart Lee. ‘They save you from making terrible mistakes.’ Photograph: Dave Benett/Getty
Comedian Stewart Lee co-wrote and co-directed the National’s first new opera, Jerry Springer: The Opera, which started life at BAC before running at the Lyttelton and then transferring to the West End.
I would say the experience of doing Jerry Springer: The Opera definitely changed my life. It helped me get taken a bit more seriously. But it wouldn’t have had the respect it did had it not gone through the National Theatre. I ended up there through a string of accidents. I’d been feeling frustrated, thinking about what things you can’t do in standup, when Richard Thomas, whose idea Jerry Springer was, thought it would be nice to try things on a bigger scale, with resources.
I don’t know at what point I became the director of Jerry Springer: The Opera, I was just around helping out. Then I started organising rehearsals and I was very intimidated, but they put great people behind you and it was a very friendly place. The stage management team there is so good, they are almost like assistant directors, really. They quietly guide your hand with their experience, a bit like the civil servants in Yes Minister and without embarrassing you, they save you from making terrible mistakes. If you want something made, you can talk to the different people about costumes and whatever – you can’t do that at the BBC, say, because everything is franchised out. There’s actual communication between departments, it’s fantastic.
It also has a really good bar. In the West End, you get spat out with your shitty wages and have to go drinking around at six quid a pint. But the bar is really nice and the people develop a sort of community. You’d find yourself talking to someone who was working on something else and you’d realise they knew how to solve the problem you were having. You didn’t have to go to some meeting, you just ended up talking to directors from other things without it being a big thing, it was curiously informal. At the BBC now they have all these hubs and pods, there’s not proper offices – you have to sit on a sofa and put your laptop on a coffee table – there are no tables at waist-height. I don’t think that works. Just being nice to people and giving them a bar or cafe – that’s how you get all that done, not by forcing people to sit in egg-shaped sofas and not giving them a proper desk.
Advertisement
Commercial theatre is awful, though. I’d do something with the National Theatre again if they wanted me, but never again with commercial theatre. It’s run for profit and the people are treated like slaves.
Things in the West End are so expensive, the only people who go to them are people who don’t know anything about culture, who could find much better things for less, or people trying to impress by having their corporate box. It’s just a waste of time and money, and the stuff’s not good enough anyway. There’s no need to go and see anything in the West End. The National is still a theatre that takes risks – it can afford to. Like the BBC, it gets attacked for doing things that are inaccessible and too arty, but also for doing things that are surefire commercial hits. But let’s not forget that before War Horse opened they were all crapping their pants about it – “Oh God, we’ve got a thing about the first world war with a puppet horse in it – it’s going to be a disaster.” Then it became a global hit.
But that’s the good thing about the BBC and the NT – they can afford to do that. They are the last places where you can develop things for their own sake without taking a focus group. Nobody you stop in the street and ask: “Would you like to see a puppet show about a horse in the first world war?” will say yes. They’ll say: “Actually, I’d prefer to see The X-Factor, if it’s all right with you.”
Commercial theatre will never develop things that jump off the tracks. They’d rather commission a jukebox musical based on the back catalogue of the Boomtown Rats or something. The public do actually like new ideas, they just don’t know they do. As everything else becomes more and more degraded, this is absolutely vital.
Tin Frog, Twitter
Tin Frog, Twitter
Guest, Dontstartmeoff.com
Guest, Dontstartmeoff.com
Dave Wilson, Chortle.com
Dave Wilson, Chortle.com
Mini-x2, readytogo.net
Mini-x2, readytogo.net
Foxfoxton, Youtube
Foxfoxton, Youtube
Dominic Cavendish, Telegraph
Dominic Cavendish, Telegraph
Carcrazychica, Youtube
Carcrazychica, Youtube
NevW47479, UKTV.co.uk
NevW47479, UKTV.co.uk
Stokeylitfest, Twitter
Stokeylitfest, Twitter
Keilloh, Twitter
Keilloh, Twitter
Jamespearse, Twitter
Jamespearse, Twitter
Chez, Chortle.com
Chez, Chortle.com
Contrapuntal, Twitter
Contrapuntal, Twitter
Lee Mack, Mack The Life, 2012
Lee Mack, Mack The Life, 2012
Etienne, Chortle.com
Etienne, Chortle.com
Coxy, Dontstartmeoff.com
Coxy, Dontstartmeoff.com
Deepbass, Guardian.co.uk
Deepbass, Guardian.co.uk
Syhr, breakbeat.co.uk
Syhr, breakbeat.co.uk
Horatio Melvin, Twitter
Horatio Melvin, Twitter
Yukio Mishima, dontstartmeoff.com
Yukio Mishima, dontstartmeoff.com
Patrick Kavanagh, Guardian.co.uk
Patrick Kavanagh, Guardian.co.uk
John Robins, Comedian
John Robins, Comedian
Birmingham Sunday Mercury
Birmingham Sunday Mercury
DVDhth's grandparents, Twitter
DVDhth's grandparents, Twitter
Stuart, Chortle
Stuart, Chortle
Danazawa, Youtube
Danazawa, Youtube
Meninblack, Twitter
Meninblack, Twitter
Nicetime, Guardian.co.uk
Nicetime, Guardian.co.uk
Alwyn, Digiguide.tv
Alwyn, Digiguide.tv
Sidsings000, Youtube
Sidsings000, Youtube
Tokyofist, Youtube
Tokyofist, Youtube
Gabrielle, Chortle.com
Gabrielle, Chortle.com
Funday’schild, youtube.
Funday’schild, youtube.
Sam Rooney, Youtube
Sam Rooney, Youtube
Lancethrustworthy, Youtube
Lancethrustworthy, Youtube
Richard Herring, Comedian
Richard Herring, Comedian
Kozzy06, Youtube
Kozzy06, Youtube
Dominic Cavendish, Daily Telegraph
Dominic Cavendish, Daily Telegraph
Tweeter Kyriakou, Twitter
Tweeter Kyriakou, Twitter
Gmanthedemon, bbc.co.uk
Gmanthedemon, bbc.co.uk
Bosco239, youtube
Bosco239, youtube
Pirate Crocodile, Twitter
Pirate Crocodile, Twitter
Clampdown59, Twitter.
Clampdown59, Twitter.
Wharto15, Twitter
Wharto15, Twitter
Genghis McKahn, Guardian.co.uk
Genghis McKahn, Guardian.co.uk
Cyberbloke, Twitter
Cyberbloke, Twitter
Microcuts 22, Twitter
Microcuts 22, Twitter
Bobby Bhoy, Twitter
Bobby Bhoy, Twitter
Sweeping Curves, Twitter
Sweeping Curves, Twitter
Len Firewood, Twitter
Len Firewood, Twitter
Zombie Hamster, Twitter
Zombie Hamster, Twitter
Secretdeveloper, Youtube
Secretdeveloper, Youtube
Visualiser1, Twitter
Visualiser1, Twitter
Slothy Matt, Twitter
Slothy Matt, Twitter
Cojones2, Guardian.co.uk
Cojones2, Guardian.co.uk
Someoneyoudon'tknow, Chortle.com
Someoneyoudon'tknow, Chortle.com
Emilyistrendy, Youtube
Emilyistrendy, Youtube
Z-factor, Twitter.
Z-factor, Twitter.
98rosjon, Twitter
98rosjon, Twitter
Neva2busy, dontstartmeoff.com
Neva2busy, dontstartmeoff.com
FBC, finalgear.com
FBC, finalgear.com
Dick Socrates, Twitter
Dick Socrates, Twitter
Whoiscuriousgeorge, Youtube
Whoiscuriousgeorge, Youtube
Rudeness, Youtube
Rudeness, Youtube
Iain, eatenbymissionaries
Iain, eatenbymissionaries
Lents, redandwhitekop.com
Lents, redandwhitekop.com
Henry Howard Fun, Twitter
Henry Howard Fun, Twitter
Liam Travitt, Twitter
Liam Travitt, Twitter
Dahoum, Guardian.co.uk
Dahoum, Guardian.co.uk
Carla, St Albans, Dailymail.co.uk
Carla, St Albans, Dailymail.co.uk
Esme Folley, Actress, cellist, Twitter
Esme Folley, Actress, cellist, Twitter
Neolab, Guardian.co.uk
Neolab, Guardian.co.uk
Cabluigi, Guardian.co.uk
Cabluigi, Guardian.co.uk
Peter Ould, Twitter
Peter Ould, Twitter
General Lurko 36, Guardian.co.uk
General Lurko 36, Guardian.co.uk
Spanner, dontstartmeoff.com
Spanner, dontstartmeoff.com
Brighton Argus
Brighton Argus
Joskins, Leeds Music Forum
Joskins, Leeds Music Forum
Al Murray, Comedian
Al Murray, Comedian
Karen Laidlaw, Edfringe. com.
Karen Laidlaw, Edfringe. com.
Lucinda Locketts, Twitter
Lucinda Locketts, Twitter
Anamatronix, Youtube
Anamatronix, Youtube
Meanstreetelite, Peoplesrepublicofcork
Meanstreetelite, Peoplesrepublicofcork
Aaron, comedy.co.uk
Aaron, comedy.co.uk
Brendon, Vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk
Brendon, Vauxhallownersnetwork.co.uk
Anonymous, don'tstartmeoff.com
Anonymous, don'tstartmeoff.com
Tres Ryan, Twitter
Tres Ryan, Twitter
Tweeterkiryakou, Twitter
Tweeterkiryakou, Twitter
Mrdavisn01, Twitter
Mrdavisn01, Twitter
Alex Quarmby, Edfringe.com
Alex Quarmby, Edfringe.com
Anon, westhamonline.com
Anon, westhamonline.com
12dgdgdgdgdgdg, Youtube
12dgdgdgdgdgdg, Youtube
Fairy Pingu, Twitter
Fairy Pingu, Twitter
Rubyshoes, Twitter
Rubyshoes, Twitter
Shane, Beverley, Dailymail.co.uk
Shane, Beverley, Dailymail.co.uk
Aiden Hearn, Twitter
Aiden Hearn, Twitter
GRTak, finalgear.com
GRTak, finalgear.com
Borathigh5, Youtube
Borathigh5, Youtube
Shit Crit, Twitter
Shit Crit, Twitter
BBC iPlayer edition of discussion of Stewart Lee on A Good Read
BBC iPlayer edition of discussion of Stewart Lee on A Good Read
Idrie, Youtube
Idrie, Youtube
World Without End, Twitter
World Without End, Twitter
Johnny Kitkat, dontstartmeoff.com
Johnny Kitkat, dontstartmeoff.com
Ishamayura Byrd, Twitter
Ishamayura Byrd, Twitter
Mearecate, Youtube
Mearecate, Youtube
Robert Gavin, Twitter
Robert Gavin, Twitter
James Dellingpole, Daily Telegraph
James Dellingpole, Daily Telegraph
Mpf1947, Youtube
Mpf1947, Youtube
Leach Juice, Twitter
Leach Juice, Twitter
Pnethor, pne-online.com
Pnethor, pne-online.com
Rowing Rob, Guardian.co.uk
Rowing Rob, Guardian.co.uk
Anonymous, The Northfield Patriot
Anonymous, The Northfield Patriot
Gwaites, Digitalspy
Gwaites, Digitalspy
Peter Ould, Youtube
Peter Ould, Youtube
Pudabaya, beexcellenttoeachother.com
Pudabaya, beexcellenttoeachother.com
Frankie Boyle, Comedian
Frankie Boyle, Comedian
Jackmumf, Twitter
Jackmumf, Twitter
Maninabananasuit, Guardian.co.uk
Maninabananasuit, Guardian.co.uk
A D Ward, Twitter
A D Ward, Twitter
Hiewy, Youtube
Hiewy, Youtube
Anon, dontstartmeoff.com
Anon, dontstartmeoff.com
Joe, Independent.co.uk
Joe, Independent.co.uk
Joycey, readytogo.net
Joycey, readytogo.net
Anon, BBC Complaints Log
Anon, BBC Complaints Log
Lenny Darksphere, Twitter
Lenny Darksphere, Twitter
Fowkes81, Twitter
Fowkes81, Twitter
Pudabaya, Twitter
Pudabaya, Twitter
Guest1001, Youtube
Guest1001, Youtube
Peter Fears, Twitter
Peter Fears, Twitter